FEBRUARY 5, 2022
BY JOHN LILIES & LANA CARBON
[John] Hello! Thanks for coming back to read another We Talk instalment. This one continues on the theme of our first Talk and we went on for a while. Lana has a hard time sticking to the point, so we walked in some circles along the way and I’m not entirely sure we ever did resolve anything by the end, but please do let us know your thoughts, once you’ve finished reading.
[Lana] Wait... We were supposed to come to a resolution? I had no idea.
[John] Yeah, you tend to miss that point.
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So, with that, here we go with We Talk Aliens… Again
[John] As we were publishing the first We Talk, I started thinking about how in that chat we were talking so much about contacting aliens from a purely physical standpoint. Because, in the documentary (John was Trying to Contact Aliens on Netflix Canada) that’s what John Shepherd was doing - blasting music out into space in the hopes of making contact. But what if we look at it more from the perspective of what they were doing in Hellier, which was more of a mental and energetic connection. And, you mentioned that Karen A. Dahlman has communicated with aliens through Ouija. So, what about that concept? I haven't read about Karen A. Dahlman contacting.
[Lana] Well, I think, actually, it was on one of her videos on YouTube or when she was talking with Patrick Keller from the Big Séance. I think it was then that she had mentioned contacting things other than spirits and other than guides.
[John] I don’t remember that.
[Lana] And I'm pretty sure, because remember she can talk to her to animals, right?
[John] Yeah, her cat came through.
[Lana] Right. And I'm pretty sure that she had mentioned talking to beings from somewhere else. Not another plane of existence but like another physical land in space, I guess.
But what you just said, as the consciousness, wouldn't that be the easiest way? If it is truly a collective consciousness, does everybody share from that one collective? Like, all beings?
[John] Everything in the entire existence of energy?
[Lana] Yes, absolutely everything.
[John] Anywhere, like in the solar system, across solar system, across solar system?
[Lana] Anything that has conscious life, conscious thought, that can truly conceive life in whatever aspect they do.
[John] Oh my gosh.
[Lana] Right? Do we all share that one consciousness? And, so then that opens up – and I'm just following the train of thoughts as they come into my head – does that mean, for people who believe in reincarnation, could we be reincarnated on another planet?
Boooom! That was my head just now.
[John] Follow the bouncing ball. Oh my gosh. Okay. Wow. There was a lot in there.
[Lana] I know, right?
The other thing is, okay, okay, now follow this one. So, there are people out there that believe that time has no past, no future - it all exists at once. It's all just happening. Okay?
[John] Okay, that’s a whole other conversation.
[Lana] I know but that gets me to where I'm going. Could that be? That there are only a limited amount of life forces out there and as one “passes away”, it moves on but it not only moves on, on earth, but the entire universe.
[John] Okay, help me understand more. What do you mean that there are only a limited number of life forces?
[Lana] Okay, so, energy never dies. Right? You cannot destroy energy. Right?
[John] Right.
[Lana] And if we are energy, if our souls or whatever, however you want to look at it, are energy, then when our body passes, the energy that is us, still exists.
[John] Yes.
[Lana] Does it, then, just reincarnate into another person, or being, or whatever, but whatever's out there now, is it – that’s all there is? The amount of energy out there, I'm wondering, is it constant? If it can't die, can you just keep adding to it or is it just that there's a finite amount of energy in all of existence… Is there a finite amount and it just keeps…
[John] Recycling…
[Lana] Right. Does it just come back?
[John] So, every new life is just an already existing…
[Lana] Bit of energy that is sparking a new consciousness or, not even a new consciousness; it sparks a consciousness for that “time”. But why I'm saying the whole thing about time being all at once, is if energy is that constant and it jumps in and out of different physical forms, past and future shouldn't matter because their energy would exist throughout. Do you see what I'm saying?
[John] I'm struggling to get my head there because my thoughts exist so much in past, present, and future, that I'm, I'm struggling to conceptualize just a present state and nothing else. I, I can't seem to get my head to open up.
[Lana] You even told me that somebody's past could be another person's future. You said that about my time travel article. So, in that idea, it's all one time.
[John] I see what you're saying, because then, the thing that I was thinking too, even when we were talking about that and I had said that, I said that my future could be somebody else's past. And then you were saying, you know, you go to the future but, then, if you go back to your present…
[Lana] Is that your past?
[John] I actually think it does become your past because the minute that you leave that timeframe and you go into another, it's no longer your present. If you return, that's no longer your present.
[Lana] But, isn’t where you always are, your present?
[John] Okay, now I need Deepak Chopra.
[Lana] Isn't the fact that you exist...
[John] You're right, because existence is just existence.
[Lana] Right. So, that means that time doesn't exist, in a way. Or, time takes place all at once. It is always the present.
[John] I can't form words right now.
[Lana] I didn't mean to go into that part of the conversation. I just meant to say, is the energy that's out there, finite, and there are only so many lives that can take place at once? And so, as soon as one dies, one person or one being or one whatever, one life form dies; the essence that makes that life form, pops into another physical life.
[John] Okay, but coming back to your point about communication and, thus, consciousness all existing in sort of one bucket, for all of existence across all of existence, across all of existence. If you understand what I'm trying to say.
[Lana] No.
[John] I don't know how to put it into words. I don't have enough knowledge about space and time, but you're saying that…
[Lana] I'm not saying anything I'm just…
[John] Sorry, you’re positing…
[Lana] Yes…
[John] That if we all communicate from that place of energy…
[Lana] That collective consciousness…
[John] Collective consciousness. Yes, that collective consciousness is truly collective of everything that exists in all aspects of everything?
[Lana] Exactly. And, now that's even making me think, when you say “everything”, could a person, once they pass away for instance, a being - could it then jump into, say, a structure? And then, it’s stuck as that structure until that structure gets demolished?
[John] Okay, we need to have a whole other conversation about energy. So, let's put that one on hold. Now I'm terrified that my desk is going to start talking to me.
[Lana] Because that's your uncle. Oh no, it's my uncle. Sorry.
[John] Oh my gosh, stop.
So, come back to the collective consciousness. I've wondered a lot about collective consciousness before and we've talked about it a bit. Years ago, we were wondering about is there a possibility that, say, the concept of God – do people believe in a God or Gods because it/they already existed and people believe as a result of its existence, or is its existence a result of people believing?
[Lana] “It's all a vicious circle!” *laughing as he conjures Fat Bastard*
[John] Let's use Ouija as another example. Let's talk legitimate Ouija experiences. Not people pushing the planchette themselves to make something happen, but people legitimately, properly, responsibly, using it – ethically, with morals – and the planchette is moving, communication is occurring. Is that movement happening, is that communication occurring, as a result of collective consciousness? There are three of us at the Ouija board and we each have a finger on the planchette - is it because we believe and we are looking for something to occur, the reason it occurs?
[Lana] I don't think so and I'll tell you why. When I have personally done Ouija, I have done it with non-believers and it's worked.
[John] Okay. I’m not doubting the existence of it, obviously. I'm just questioning where does collective consciousness fall into manifestation?
[Lana] Yeah, I was just going to say but was my belief strong enough in those times, that it worked off my energy and belief alone?
[John] Okay, so, not necessarily collective consciousness then, but your own energy strength. Your own ability to maneuver and manifest.
[Lana] Okay… Um, this is slightly off topic… There's a certain word that I'm looking for and I can't remember it. What is it called when you can bring something into physical existence, through belief alone? There is a name for it and I just can't remember it.
[John] That concept is part of what I'm talking about.
[Lana] That's what immediately popped into my mind when you mentioned it – does God exist because everyone’s belief creates it?
[John] Yes, exactly. So, maybe it isn't even necessarily a collective consciousness? I mean, I think when it comes to something as big as a deity, it has to be a collective.
[Lana] But, not to the extent of the collective.
[John] You're saying not to the extent of the big collective consciousness that you were referring to?
[Lana] In this case, yes, because there are too many different beliefs. There are people out there that don't believe in God, so therefore it can't be the big, overall, collective consciousness. When I'm thinking the collective consciousness, it is absolutely everything. So, a belief in that sense, I don't even think exists because there will always be people that disagree with it. So, in that sense, a collective agreement is not possible but a collective consciousness is just the fact that life exists.
[John] You're saying something very different than what I'm perceiving what you're saying. So, let's go to collective consciousness. You're saying, is there one collective that exists from all existence ever?
[Lana] Maybe it isn't a collective consciousness but a collective energy.
[John] A bucket of energy that exists for every thing ever in time, not just earth but everything outside of earth, as well. But, you're also saying that a collective agreement has to occur?
[Lana] No, that's separate.
[John] Okay, so this is what I'm trying to clarify.
I'm saying collective consciousness, meaning for all the people on earth, there are enough who believe in a God; could that collective potentially be manifesting what they perceive as God, miracles, and whatnot, versus having a collective who say God doesn't exist. Is it a situation of their reality, where there is no God, versus another reality where there is a God or multiple gods? You're saying that those collectives are almost like a social agreement? So, I believe in a God, you believe in a God, they believe in a God, therefore, there is a God. Versus what you're calling a collective energy, is different?
[Lana] Right. So, the collective energy is the spark that creates the life, that creates the whatever – you need that spark of energy. My thought there with that collective – actually I'll say energy, now. I'm going to change my mind and say collective energy – is that what creates the spark of life or any kind of a physical object, or light, or sound? Whereas, collective consciousness is almost like a data bank that everyone can pull from.
[John] Everyone being even those outside of earth?
[Lana] Well, originally, I was thinking just earth but now I'm thinking it’s the big collective, right? What you were talking about, I would say is not a collective consciousness, but it's that word that I can't think of. Wherein, if enough people believe, can it manifest that thing? That, to me, isn't collective consciousness. That is, instead, whatever that word is. I wish I could remember it.
[John] I know that there is, actually, a different definition for collective consciousness and it's failing me right now. I need to look it up.
[Lana] While you're looking that up, I'm going to continue.
With so many people believing in one thing, the more people believe in it, the more real it becomes, in my opinion. Whereas, the people that have the minority belief or an opposing belief, also affect that thing. It's like voting, in a way. The more people that vote for something, they make it real. The people that don't vote for that thing still have access to the thing or they can have nothing. There would be something that is from the main belief and something that opposes the main belief. So, that's why I'm thinking that God could have been created that way because a whole bunch of people believe in God. But, let's say a different religion that believes in a different God or multiple gods, can also exist. It may not be as powerful or have as much to draw from as, in this case, God, because more people believe in God than in, say, polytheism.
[John] That's almost taking me to a place of our own individual realities. We live in just our own individual worlds.
[Lana] Our own thoughts do affect our reality.
[John] There's a website, thoughtco.com, that has published an article called The Concept of Collective Consciousness: What It Is and How It Holds Society Together. This article is by Nikki Lisa Cole, PhD, and this was updated January 16, 2019. It says, “Collective consciousness (sometimes collective conscience or conscious) is a fundamental sociological concept that refers to the set of shared beliefs, ideas, attitudes, and knowledge that are common to a social group or society. The collective consciousness informs our sense of belonging and identity, and our behavior.” This is the basic definition that I was thinking of.
[Lana] I think that's looking at it more from a…
[John} A very realistic…
[Lana] Yes…
[John] …and physical standpoint.
[Lana] Right.
[John] But, does that apply to energy?
[Lana] Yes, because it is a shared belief but it's not what I am referring to as a collective consciousness. It's a different definition, I think. We're looking at it in more of a metaphysical way.
[John] We're holding similar thoughts about collective consciousness. I mean, this article is obviously rooted in physical reality. They’re looking at it from a social perspective. Earth-based science. But, we're talking about it from, as you were saying, a metaphysical perspective, as in – does that concept extend beyond the sociological one? So, let's take that idea of a shared belief and apply the concept of energy and manifestation.
[Lana] Yes. That's where I'm going with it. I think where we got thrown was the fact that I used the word consciousness and I shouldn't have.
[John] I think it just depends on what aspect of it you’re looking at. I think yours breaks out into different branches, right? Maybe there are subsets. If we look at your bucket of energy for all of existence, maybe there are subsets. So, maybe that filters out – maybe earth is another bucket?
[Lana] So, it’s like a champagne tower?
[John] Ha. Maybe. Think about it. Maybe you have the collective whole for all existence, completely, but then, if you consider different planets or different energy realms of existence, perhaps there are subset buckets.
[Lana] But my question is, are there different subsets? Could the energy that is me right now, once my physical body dies could I end up on another planet? Could my consciousness, my spark of life, end up on another planet, another dimension, or like I said before, could I end up being a piece of furniture like a dresser? Could I be a building?
[John] Okay, let's come back to this concept of communication though. We're so far off track and I really want to focus on the concept of communication. This other stuff, we'll delve into further in a separate chat.
Collective communication or collective consciousness feeding communication. If we are talking about that bucket of energy for all of existence, that communication stems from the bucket of energy. So, let’s say I have the ability to connect to a stream of consciousness that exists.
[Lana] That'll take you to the bucket.
[John] Yeah. Am I connecting to that bucket? And, is that where and how we would then potentially contact alien life?
[Lana] That’s where I was going with the whole idea…
[John] When we started this half an hour ago.
[Lana] Yes. Is that potentially the easiest way? If we could learn to tap into whatever it is that would allow us to use that flow of energy. Because, I think we are all connected; I don't think we ever lose the connection to the bucket. It's just whether we have the ability to utilize it.
[John] Let's come back to Hellier and one of the experiments they did with Dana Newkirk communicating. I’m trying to remember if it was a helmet or some sort of head gear that Dana was wearing, and if we assume it was actually happening for real, they (Dana/entity, Greg Newkirk, and their group) had a conversation – asking questions and having them answered.
[Lana] Right.
[John] Who or what do you think they were contacting and was that out of the bucket? Was that a connection to the bucket that touched another stream of consciousness?
[Lana] Is any of it out of the bucket?
[John] Wait. Now you're saying there is no bucket?
[Lana] No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying everything goes back to the bucket.
[John] *confused look – maybe cocking her head a bit like a puppy but with one eyebrow up*
[Lana] Okay. Follow this, if you can.
[John] I don't know if I'm following anything anymore.
[Lana] Is – even this conversation – the fact that we can physically sit here talking to each other, is that even going through the bucket? Because if it's collective consciousness, meaning all of everything goes into the bucket, absolutely everything is in the bucket. I think the collective consciousness is a way to explain how people could know things that they shouldn't know, from a metaphysical perspective, well from many perspectives.
Edgar Cayce - that was the first time I read about the collective consciousness and Cayce could tap into it to learn things that he shouldn't have known about future events, past events, that he should have had no concept of. Based on his example, if you go to the collective consciousness (the bucket), you can get knowledge that you didn't or shouldn’t know. The knowledge has to get there or has to be there. So, if you can learn anything, then our conversation that we're having right now, should be there.
[John] Already?
[Lana] Yes, I'm saying time doesn't exist anymore or it exists all at once, so yes, in that theory the conversation would already be in the collective consciousness. My point is to say that by simply talking to another person, is it basically our own thoughts (because it would be incredibly fast for our thoughts to go to the bucket and down to the other person) or is it that we perceive it as our thoughts from, say, my mouth to your ear?
[John] So, you're almost thinking of it as the bucket being like a cell tower?
[Lana] Or, a like a satellite. I think we are continually connected to the bucket, no matter what form we take, because our thoughts are energy, knowledge is energy, the signal is energy.
[John] This is where my head goes to the ridiculous place of how does it all stay organized? I'm feeling like the streams are like threads; you would have a stream, I would have a stream. But, then our streams would be on their own and would connect with intention. I'm speaking to you, so your stream and my stream are going to connect for us to have this conversation.
[Lana] No, not necessarily. Not directly. Yes, they connect. But, because our intention is to discuss this with each other at this moment, it goes up to the bucket and down. But, now, if someone was to not remote view but remote listen, they could hear the conversation. Therefore, their energy would go up to the bucket and get little pieces of what we're talking about, even though it's directed at one another. So, they could hear what we are talking about.
[John] That would still be intention though, right? There has to be some sort of intention because you can't just have all of these streams going in and automatically knowing what they're supposed to connect to, unless that is your intention.
[Lana] But, if someone is remote listening, we don't have that intention.
[John] But there has to be an intention. Our intention is to speak to each other, so our streams are connecting and making that contact with each other. But, if somebody else is trying to remote view or remote listen, their intention has to be to connect with us, to be a part of whatever is happening – whatever we are talking about, say. Their intention is different from ours but there is still intention.
[Lana] I have a good example of what I'm trying to say. Think of it as though you are dialing someone’s phone number but you accidentally dial the wrong number and you get someone else. Or, for us older people, like the old party lines when there was a distinct ring for you (two rings for you, one ring for someone in another house). If you were to be mistaken and pick up the phone when it was meant for another house, you could actually listen to their conversation. So, back to the intention, you could still be connected to someone but without it being your intention to connect to that person or group.
[John] You still have an intention, it's just getting mixed up, somehow.
[Lana] Right.
[John} I’m still trying to visualize the concept of what you're talking about (because you know I need to visualize everything).
[Lana] Let's picture the individual strand that goes up from each person, or being, or energy. I think it goes to the bucket first and then it comes back down to you. But then, does that bucket have streams that go to other planets? Can we use that strand to communicate with energies on other planets the way we're communicating right now with each other?
[John] Going back to the Hellier experiment when Dana was communicating with something, you suggested that maybe there isn’t a bucket. So, you have me totally confused now.
[Lana] That's because my mind keeps changing.
[John] So, what do you think was happening? You don't think it was going to and coming from the bucket that you're talking about?
[Lana] I didn't at first but now I think it does involve the bucket. I've always thought that when we talk, we just talk. I've always thought that the collective consciousness, I'm going to call it that, has all knowledge of all time. If you can tap into it, you can get knowledge that you wouldn't ordinarily know or have access to. All knowledge has to end up there, meaning that everything that happens is there. So, our conversation is there. Meaning, it has to be somehow connected, which brought me to the idea that it follows however we're connected to the bucket, and back down to you, who I'm talking to.
[John] So, in that example of the Hellier experiment, Dana's consciousness stream was going up to the bucket and connecting with whatever being she was talking to.
[Lana] This is all on-the-fly theory.
[John] Based on your theory, yes, she was communicating with something that could have been outside of our known earthly realm?
[Lana] Yes.
[John] Because, you figure that there is an all-in consciousness of all existence, so her stream of consciousness was connecting to another stream of consciousness that was communicating with her.
[Lana] Basically.
[John] And, that other stream of consciousness could have been anywhere at all; another planet, another dimension, anywhere.
So, let's come back to the concept of Ouija. Maybe it isn't necessarily, then, a belief that something could happen that creates the thing to happen but it could also, or instead, be a matter of the intention to connect with something. The intention carries our stream of consciousness to connect with another stream of consciousness. We don't know what that necessarily is; we may have an intention for it to be a specific stream, but what it actually connects to may not be that thing/being you’re aiming for, depending on how it plays out.
[Lana] So to me, Ouija is just another tool to focus your intention.
[John] And it’s the same concept, with energy streams, yes? You agree?
[Lana] Yes, I agree. Now, if you are specifically looking for someone, and this just came to me, it would be like calling their name and whether they answer or not is basically if your intention is strong enough for them to hear you. (And, obviously if they want to answer you or not.)
Now, say a stranger is walking down the street ahead of you, and they drop their wallet. You call out to them a few times – how many people, on a crowded street, are going to turn towards you? How many people are going to look at that wallet and say, that's mine, and want to respond to you? There is the problem with trying to contact someone through Ouija or any spirit board; if your intention is not strong enough to get to the person you want or you don’t have the identifier to target them correctly.
[John] If you don't have their actual phone number.
[Lana] Exactly! Mix up the numbers when calling somebody, you’re going to get somebody else. If you're dialing a phone number and your intention and focus is not there, your concentration isn't on the numbers that you're dialing, you could easily hit the wrong number and you're going to get somebody else.
[John] This conversation did not answer anything at all for me.
[Lana] Was it supposed to?
[John] Yeah.
[Lana] Well, that was your mistake. It's only going to lead to more questions.
[John] I know. Every conversation we have just opens up more doors. And I think I'm spent. There are so many thoughts going through my head that I can't even grab one of them right now.
[Lana] Isn’t that how our conversations usually go?
[John] Pretty much, which is why we fight while we try to figure out what each other is getting at.
[Lana] That’s because you like to get to an ending, whereas I'm good with the arcs and open-ended non-resolutions.
[John] I think it’s more because I like to understand what we're talking about and I very rarely understand what you're trying to tell me.
[Lana] Oh, well, that’s another problem. I don't understand what I'm trying to tell you.
[John] Yes, you do make my head spin.
My whole thing and the reason I started this conversation, was that energy perspective; communicating via energy and our own personal selves instead of a physical trial like shooting a signal out into space. That was my point.
[Lana] Oh, yeah! That was a while ago.
[John] Yep, that’s what started all of this. If I were to sit down with my intent to contact something, based on your theory, potentially I could connect with something that is not you, or that is not a person, or that is not a physical thing. It could be another energy or it could be another form, but the potential is there.
[Lana] I think so.
[John] Theoretically, then, you don't need to be patient and learn how to create the equipment and shoot a signal out into space with the hope of something receiving it and replying. You could just sit here on the Chesterfield and focus, and potentially communicate with something out there. Or use a tool like a spirit board, or a pendulum, or something that could help you target and home in on that energy, and amplify your intention to connect.
[Lana] Right, because you would no longer have to worry about, like you said, the equipment. So, speed of sound no longer matters and the length of time that the message needs to get there and back. And now my whole idea before, about evolution and us potentially turning into Greys – could we get to a point where not only could we send a message but could we travel the energy stream? Is that how we are seeing these UFOs? That would explain how they can travel the millions and millions of light years to get here.
[John] Well, that goes back to what I was saying last time about how I see alien life and how I see our existence in death. It's just energy reshaping, reforming, into whatever it wants or needs to be. So, in that sense, yes, absolutely it could travel. It could go anywhere and be anything.
Okay. My brain is done. I don't think I can talk anymore. Thank you.
[Lana] Thank you!
[John] *checks the timer on the recording and almost passes out* Um, baby? I think we need transcribing software…
[John] And… that’s it! Or, that’s not it. I suspect this will continue but maybe we will talk about something other than aliens for the next one. Or, maybe we will only ever talk about aliens from now on. I’m tired. Are you tired? I’m tired.
Thanks for sticking with us again. What are your thoughts on all of this stuff? (If you can even figure out what we were talking about – and if you can figure that out, could you please let me know? Much appreciated!)
[Lana] PS… just before publishing this Talk, I remembered the word I was looking for… tulpa.
