DECEMBER 9th, 2015
By LANA CARBON & JOHN LILIES
[John] As you read in Part 1, we had the honour of interviewing the delightful Patrick Keller of the Big Séance Podcast a few weeks ago.
In Part 1 of our interview, we discovered what sparked Patrick’s interest in the paranormal and his work with E.V.P. research. We also had a backstage pass to the stories behind Missouri Spirit Seekers and Patrick’s inability to connect to spirit via the Ouija board.
We left off discussing how frustrating it can be to witness paranormal investigators and tour guides dramatizing stories and events, while knowing full well that if they didn’t add those extras to the stories and documentation we likely wouldn’t be as interested to watch and partake in the experiences ourselves. After all, hours of zero activity or drama won’t draw in the majority of us will it?
Join us now as we delve further into Patrick’s story and learn more about the Big Séance…
Begin Part 2 - pour yourself another drink, grab your blanket, get super cozy and join us in Patrick’s parlour for more of our wee chat.
November 22, 2015
[John] Why did you choose the name Big Séance?
[Patrick] Um… I think I actually had a blog post about this and I’m trying to remember [John’s note: Blog post “Séance Etiquette” dated April 13, 2012]. From the very beginning, I was trying to just kind of paint this picture of - I think there was an episode of a children’s show from the 80s called “3-2-1- Contact” – it would either be before or after Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood, or one of those. They had a little show within a show [John’s note: “The Bloodhound Gang”] and I remember they did some episode about a séance where there was some psychic medium or something and it was very played up, very silly and it was low budget. I remember thinking ‘that was so cool’ and just that vision in my head was kind of cool. So I tried to just figure out a way I could paint spiritualism and spirit communication and everything that I was interested in, and I guess ‘séance’ popped in my brain and it sounds cool and you know - I don’t know why ‘big’ came into it but I wasn’t thinking a podcast was coming down the line in the future. I guess it just popped out of my brain, I really don’t know. I should look back at that blog post. I probably have forgotten what inspired it all. I guess to me it’s like a metaphor; it’s just symbolizing my curiosity for communicating with spirits and what life is like on the other side - everything that I like to blab on about.
[John] What actually inspired you to start the blog in the first place?
[Patrick] I guess probably in - what was it - it was in two thousand and…
[John] …and twelve?
[Patrick] Twelve? Okay yeah. Wow! That’s some research! 2012 - I tend to do things in two-year increments. So it was either 2010 or 2012.
[Lana] Spirit Seekers was 2010.
[Patrick] I’m guessing it was probably a peak of new bloggers because I was hearing about blogging a lot. I started following a lot of Wordpress bloggers and I guess I just decided to jump in myself; and I don’t know if you remember or if you were following me at that time but I was doing daily blog posts for probably a year or just under a year. That just was not going to happen for much longer. That was a little rough but I enjoyed it and in many ways it was kind of like a diary, I guess. I got everything out that I needed to get out. The funny thing is I’m not really a writer, for sure, but I’m not really a speaker either, so I don’t know how that took me to the podcast. I don’t know - I enjoyed talking about it and sharing my thoughts on it. It was just kind of a cool outlet. I don’t know if blogging is bigger now or as big; I don’t remember exactly what got me into it. I’m sure there’s a blog out there that got me into it.
[John] So other than leaving behind the daily posts on the blog, how do you feel the blog has evolved for you? How has that portion of your life evolved?
[Patrick] One thing for sure, I look back at some of those earlier posts and I can tell that my knowledge on things has grown. Even my opinions and theories have grown a little bit so that makes me cringe sometimes when I look back at some of the older ones; but a lot of people aren’t visiting those posts anymore obviously, so that’s okay.
I definitely started thinking more about how to word things and produce things, making it more attractive. Before, I was just spewing out all my thoughts on a blog page and then hitting post; but now that I have the podcast and when all my thoughts go to the podcast, there’s nothing left for the blog. I throw it all out there on the podcast.
With Jim Harold and the Paranormal Podcast, I was such a big fan of his (and like I’ve said many times, for years, his was the only podcast that I listened to so he was podcasting) and I had thoughts in my head while I was blogging – ‘could this be a podcast?’ - but I never really thought about it too seriously. Then once I started listening to other podcasts out there and realized what a big thing it was, I decided to just do it - like I said, I tend to every two years shift into a new nerdy passion. I had the paranormal investigation team - that must have been 2010 right?
[Lana] It was.
[Patrick] 2010, then 2012 the blog, 2014 the podcast so I think I just get tired of things and move on. I’m hoping I don’t get tired of this podcast because 2016 – you know that’s the next point.
[John] I was just going to say we’re coming up to your next change - your next metamorphosis.
[Patrick] Maybe it’s a TV show, I don’t know.
[John] Oh!
[Lana] There we go!
[Patrick] I know no one in that world so I don’t think there’s going to be a TV show.
[John] Do you have an ultimate goal for the blog or do you feel it is more just supporting the podcast at this stage?
[Patrick] I think right now it’s just mainly a home for the podcast. Every now and then, something comes up in my paranormal world that is easier to express on the blog than the podcast. Like the cool funeral home ghost story that I got from a listener, which was really cool and was a big hit. That was a perfect thing to put on the blog. The funny thing is this listener who sent that in, I was communicating to him. I was trying to figure out if I was going to read the story on the podcast or put it on the blog and he was like ‘Are you really going to talk about somebody peeing?’ because if you read that story, you know he was using the restroom – standing – and a ghost walked by and glanced at him really quick before walking on. He was like ‘Do you really see yourself reading that on the podcast?’ So I thought ‘Good point! I guess we’ll put this one in the blog’.
[John] The Big Séance Potty Show.
[Patrick] Exactly! I didn’t think that one all the way through.
[John] So the blog is your support system for the podcast.
[Patrick] That’s how I think of it right now. One of these days, I don’t know, maybe I shift back from podcasting to blogging but I think right now the passion definitely is on the podcast side of it.
[John] Yeah, we like you in the podcast. Well we like you in the blog too but we enjoy hearing your voice and your stories so I hope you don’t leave that behind.
[Patrick] Yay!! Thank you.
[John] How long had you been listening to Jim Harold before you decided that you wanted to be his student?
[Patrick] Jim Harold started out, I believe in 2005 if I’m correct, and I started tuning in in 2008. I immediately, in 2008, decided to go back to his back catalogue and listen to that whole thing. It was actually Jim who – I remember I responded to something he was promoting; his podcasting course that he was trying out for a while. I don’t even think I messaged this to him, I think I had shared it and mentioned the fact that I was just thinking about it and he actually saw it and jumped in and said ‘Dude, I think you should do this’. I was like `Oh my gosh, if I have his blessing, then sure’. I think it was $100 or something, his course. Courses sometimes in podcasting, people give them a hard time because there’s a lot of free information out there too.
The thing is with podcasting is technology changes so quickly. There’s a lot of outdated, helpful instructions on how to have a podcast but also, just the fact that you can get everything from one source; and I trusted Jim because obviously that was what podcasting was for me and what I was used to. It was really cool. There were step-by-step videos that you could do at your own time. You could watch and communicate with him at any time. Like I said, it was having his little blessing, having him chime in. Oh my gosh, the $100, it was so worth it to just push me into it. So far, I think I’ve been his only student. I think he’s going to try to re-package that and try some different things but it was definitely worth it for me. I don’t know why that wasn’t more of a thing.
[John] Did that really help you solidify the decision to start your own podcast? Was that the defining factor or did you know before then that you definitely wanted to do it?
[Patrick] When I saw that he was putting the course out and I saw him promoting the course, I guess that’s when I started thinking about it more. As soon as I paid that $100 and started, I didn’t look back. I just got really excited about it and started planning the nerdy elements of it, like the intros and the outros and started testing things out. You know, the geeky tech side of it with the microphones. I’m on my third generation already of equipment. That was probably a side effect of it - I spent too much money but that part of it was so fun and when I commit to something, I tend to jump into it and really commit to it and focus on it a little too hard; which is probably why I move on from things every two years. I knew I could do it once I jumped into it. It was really fun. That first year for sure, that first Hallowe’en season of doing two or three Hallowe’en episodes - oh my gosh, they were so fun but it was so stressful - but fun stressful. You know, I didn’t sleep a lot. Before I did the Hallowe’en episode this year I actually listened to the old episodes and all these memories came back just from doing a nerdy podcast. How nerdy is that?
[John] I think that’s awesome.
[Patrick] Yeah! All the people I’ve met; you guys - how would I have randomly connected with you guys, met other paranerds or what other nerdy hobby could I get into and meet psychics and mediums and listeners. It’s just really cool. I’m glad I’m doing it. I’m going to stick with it.
[John] We’re really glad you are doing it too and honestly, I’ve said to Lana so many times, it’s such a cool thing. I tend to see my life and live my life very much in the opportunities and the people that are put in front of me; and having to just go with it even if it is the most terrifying thing in the world, it’s there and I have to give it a shot. From listening to Jim Harold and discovering you and listening to you, and through you we have discovered so many other people and connected with people that have enriched our lives so much. We’ve really discovered a lot about ourselves and discovered a lot more about how we want to do our blog and what we want to see for ourselves in the future. Even just on an energy level, on a spiritual level, what we’ve learned and how we’ve been able to push through what honestly has probably been one of the hardest years for us. We’ve been able to get through it and a lot of it has come through some of the people and the knowledge that you’ve been able to share on the podcast. I am strongly of the belief that everything really is connected. What we have gained from connecting with you, through your circle and what you’ve shared, has been honestly life changing in many ways so we owe you a lot.
[Patrick] That makes me very happy to hear because there are some days where I wonder if what I’m doing - if there’s a point to it. I didn’t mean that to sound so negative but do you know what I’m saying? I don’t have this master plan - especially during the school year I tend to go week by week. I don’t have this big produced entity that has three or four or five shows ready to go so it really is sometimes just what pops up into my world when I put content out there. Sometimes I’m not even really sure about it, it’s like ‘I’m not really sure if this is that cool but it’s what I’ve got right now so I’ll do what I can’. So that makes me feel cool that people are taking it and using it and feeling like it’s worthy of listening to and learning from. That’s cool.
I’m excited for you guys too. That’s awesome.
[John’s note: At this point, Patrick turned the table, took on the role of interviewer and led us down a side street for a while. Perhaps one day we will share with you what we shared with Patrick but until then, we return to our own questions for Patrick as Lana brings the conversation back into focus.]
[Lana] Reeling it in, reeling it back in.
When you did your 30-second promo and your first episode on the 25th of June [2014], how nervous were you and what was going through your head at the time?
[Patrick] I can’t say that I was nervous. Okay, I wasn’t nervous in the planning of it for sure - it was nothing but excitement. I’m telling you; I worked a couple of weeks on just two elements - the intro, the outro. What is this podcast going to be about? How is the format going to be? (And it has changed just a little bit since the beginning.) I really had fun with that but the first actual interview with my buddy Marilyn Painter, I don’t know if I could have been able to have my first interview be with anybody else because she already knows my nerdiness so well. It was really comfortable to record with her but I was really nervous when I interviewed her and I still get nervous when I do any interviews.
Communicating verbally, believe it or not, is not my biggest strength so there are a lot of things that I script and I definitely have to plan things out. That part I get nervous about even to this day, a lot. I get nervous about the Skype call and is it all going to work out? Are the tech things going to work out? But then once I start editing – I’m a big editor and a lot of podcasters hate that part of it. Oh my gosh, I will sit down and put in the little bumpers and different parts of it and piece them together and make it sound good. I will work on that for 10-12 hours easy. I really love that – most of the time – you know, it’s tiring too. I like it but the interviews, I will always forever be nervous about that but still you get a lot of good out of it. It’s a good nervousness; it’s just a general anxiousness about it all.
[John] What is it that really makes you nervous though? Is it the actual interviewing or is it the output?
[Lana] Or is it that you don’t know what’s coming?
[Patrick] That’s probably it. I think because I’m so OCD – knowing what’s going to happen, that’s probably it actually. Am I going to sound like a giant dork? What is my response going to be? This happens in my teaching too and the kids laugh at me, and my whole family has this issue where there’s this every day word that people use – you might be trying to think of the word ‘dog’ and you say ‘you know, four legs, fur, likes to lick, barks…’ ‘Oh dog!’ I have a third grade vocabulary just in general and so I get nervous about that – am I gonna sound smart? Am I gonna have the word that I need? I’m not an intellectual at all and so I guess that’s the part that makes me nervous. But I think a lot of people, from some of the feedback that I’ve gotten, a lot of people like the fact that I’m kind of this dork that’s just ‘I don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m just having a conversation’. I think a lot of people like that even though it’s painful for me.
[John] It’s that authenticity that I think really does draw everybody in. I know that’s what keeps us going because you’re human and you’re perfect in your imperfections. It’s that just being you and allowing what happens to happen and to not make it anything that you’re not. I think that’s what is really special about you and what you do.
[Patrick] Well I appreciate that. I know, probably in the first couple of episodes I was probably trying to figure out that sound. There’s a fine line between sounding like this professional podcast and me the dork. So I think I’ve been kind of back and forth trying to figure out where exactly I land in the middle of the those things. It’s funny, I’ve had one of my teacher friends at school tell me ‘You know I listened to your podcast the other day and you speak really slowly on the podcast’. I said ‘I do?’ I guess in real life I really just blurt things out. I guess I’m not that natural that when someone’s been listening to the podcast who knows me and speaks to me on a regular basis and says apparently I speak really slowly on the podcast.
[John] Well I know you’ve talked about not being entirely sure where the podcast might be going and as 2016 is coming up, your two-year mark is coming – what might that shift be; but do you have even an ambiguous vision of what you really want the future of the podcast to be?
[Patrick] There are many episodes – there are a couple months there where all of my episodes were driven by the books that I was reading. With how much time it takes to podcast in general plus the job, you know my books have slowed down so I’ve kind of had to figure out another way to figure out what happens. I can tell you right now, a lot of times it ends up being the interactions that I have in my world and in social media, which has led us to having this conversation here with you guys.
So, here’s some behind-the-scenes – you know we’re getting ready to record your interview with me on my podcast and so that’s how that came about. I think from the very beginning, the blog ended up being a way for me to just express kind of the normal, nerdy, paranormal things that came up in my life; and that would be an example of that – you know our conversation that we’re having here today – and so I do believe your interview (that hasn’t happened yet [at the time of this blog interview]) should be my next episode. So right now it really is week-by-week. Sometimes I shift back and forth on themes. For a while it was a psychic-medium theme. I’ve struggled to get some paranormal investigation type of people on the podcast – I don’t know why and I don’t exhaustively try to contact people. There are definitely some people that I could contact and I would like to get some more of that content on the show. I really don’t know other than you guys next week.
[John to Lana] No pressure!
[Patrick] It’s gotta be a good one man!
[John] So it’s going to be a five-minute podcast episode that you’re releasing? Is that it? [John’s note: At this point there was laughter and an awkward pause]
[John to Lana] He didn’t answer that one.
[Lana to John] I know, eh!
[John’s note: We joked with Patrick a bit before pulling ourselves back together and moving forward - albeit now feeling extremely more nervous than before about being the sole guest on Patrick’s podcast episode #49]
[Lana] We know that in your regular gig you’re a teacher. How does your teaching life and your podcasting life influence each other? Or do they at all?
[Patrick] For a long time it was hard for me to figure out a way for me to just, in a conversation, talk about paranormal things with my students. In many ways it just doesn’t fit. It’s gotten easier because I think a student really wants to know what kind of nerd their teacher is.
I’ve mentioned this on the podcast several times – the word ‘nerd’ itself comes out of my mouth at least 10, 15 times a day. It’s really something – 14 years ago when I started teaching, if I ever mentioned the word ‘nerd’ either another adult would hear it and gasp ‘did you just call them a nerd?’ or a student might get insulted; and I really have tried – and I have succeeded, I can tell you, in my building – we have turned that around. Being a nerd is a cool thing. I always tell them they have to be two or three different kinds of nerds and rock it and really be proud of it. So it’s something that I talk about a lot and even teachers now know – they’ve caught the whole theme with me. I’ve integrated it in some of the projects that I’ve done, especially in my new music production & technology class that I’ve begun teaching this year; and it’s that class really that has allowed me to kind of combine the two because I had a big hand in writing the curriculum and putting this class together, and I said ‘we are going to do a podcast unit - we have to’.
So I’ve been able to talk about it a lot more – my experiences in podcasting – and I’ve even had a couple of students do kind of paranormal, spooky Hallowe’en-type projects just this last quarter which has been cool. Not so much paranormal has been crammed into my teaching world but definitely the whole podcasting part of it has now – it feels like it’s kind of joining together a little bit which is cool. Every now and then the kids will ask me for a cool story from some experience I had and we have our resident ghost in my classroom (that I don’t think really is a ghost but it’s a fun story). They ask about those stories every year – ‘Isn’t there the ghost of Mrs. Owen here?’ ‘Oh, so you want a Mrs. Owen story? Okay!’ Which is funny because Mrs. Owen started from some research and posts that I did on the blog a couple of years ago. We bust it out every now and then, we get our paranormal on. Can’t go too much though.
END PART 2
[John] Well folks, that’s it for Part 2. We still have another installment to share with you, so stay tuned for Part 3 to be posted soon and remember what Patrick said… “Being a nerd is a cool thing.”
In honour of Patrick and the Big Séance Podcast, if you read through Part 2 then please tweet us @carbonlilies and Patrick @BigSeance with the two hashtags #paranerdalexperience and #thebloodhoundgang.
