MENTAL HEALTH INITIATIVES

Get Outta Your Head, with Sally Goncalves - Part 2

MARCH 31st, 2016

By JOHN LILIES

Thanks for tuning in for Part Two of our interview with Sally Goncalves of Outta.

In Part One, Sally graciously shared with us her experience growing up and how she has learned to cope with depression and anxiety. We also learned about how important it is to Sally to speak openly about emotions and mental health challenges; and what Outta is all about. If you haven’t read Part One yet, you can click here to start.

In this final part of our interview with Sally, we learn more about her vision for Outta and her desire for us, as a society, to be able to speak of mental illness like we speak of the common cold or other health challenges, with no stigma. We’re excited to bring you the last part of our chat.

So put on your comfy clothes, get yourself a soothing drink, settle into your favourite cozy spot, and join us now for part two.

[John] You’ve talked about supporting mental health initiatives; what type of mental health initiatives are you really focused on?

[Sally] I really want to focus on youth. I would really like to begin in schools and bring mindfulness programs into schools. I know that there are schools that already have this implemented, so it’s a lot of contacting and reaching out. Starting with even just one class, to kind of show these kids that self-care is important at any age. There are a lot of kids suffering from – sorry, I don’t like to use the word ‘suffering’ – experiencing anxiety at a younger and younger age. They don’t know what to do with that. It’s a scary feeling and I know from myself, when I was a kid, if somebody sat me down and said ‘I’m gonna teach you how to focus on your breath’, oh my gosh! When my parents were fighting I could have gone to my room to focus on my breath and calmed myself down; and instead I would just daydream and kind of watch TV. I don’t know what I did but I know it wasn’t healthy; I just tried to escape what was going on. Kids are so easily influenced that I think if we can teach them certain techniques that make sense to them, who knows – that might stick with them and help them later on when they’re in high school or university and they become young adults. I just feel like you learn how to survive as a kid and if you’re not aware enough, you use those same survival techniques as an adult and they don’t work anymore as an adult; because you’re not in that environment anymore, but it’s almost like you don’t know any other way to be. So if you don’t have those coping skills as a kid, how are going to know how to do that as an adult? So, that’s kind of my main focus and that’s really what I want to try to implement, but I’m not limited to that. Mental Health Week is coming up in May, so whatever programs are going on there we will look into that and see how we can help. There are great organizations like New Leaf Yoga in Toronto, and they teach yoga and meditation to at-risk youth in more under-privileged areas. So it’s a lot of independent, smaller charities that need help and I kind of want to focus more on that.

[John] I think it’s so great that the youth demographic is a huge part of your focus, if not the focus, because it’s the missing link.

[Sally] Yes.

[John] We have barely, not even close to enough programming for adults. We have next to no programming for children and not even just kids under 16; at 18 you start being able to access the adult programming and you’re barely an adult at that. So we really need more support and awareness and focus on that youth demographic. I am so happy that you are looking there; and not that it isn’t important to also look at the adult demographic but we need to foster our kids and help them to understand how they can help themselves.

[Sally] Exactly! Yeah, that’s the most important thing is knowing that you have the strength – the inner strength – to handle life and life’s stresses. There is always going to be stress, we can’t avoid it. If you have some sort of technique, skill, and then the confidence, I think then we will have better functioning adults. I’m not very good with statistics but speaking from my friends who work in more of a corporate world, there are so many adults that take off time from work because they’re depressed or super anxious. Again, mental health is a huge spectrum so I’m not speaking on behalf of people that have Bipolar or Schizophrenia or something like that because that’s a completely different side of mental health. I don’t have enough knowledge to talk about that and those are more permanent illnesses. But people who get depressed because they are just overwhelmed, and that’s how their bodies react to it, that’s how their minds react to it, or kids that get depressed because they’re overwhelmed. There are so many different anxieties now - like generalized, social anxiety - you know, there are all these anxieties that I think a lot of them do stem from environmental situations, stress, that people just don’t know how to cope. They just don’t know what to do with decisions, workload and home life, school and all of that. Then you shut down because you just don’t know what else to do.

[John] We’re rarely given the tools that we need to cope and to find our way through life.

[Sally] Yeah, so I think with kids, if they’re not learning it at home – and I mean, I ask my kids all the time to meditate and they rarely do because I’m their mom and I’m also telling them brush their teeth and make their bed. However, in school if their teacher said ‘oh we’re going to take this class’, then they would do it. You can try to do it at home but I know I don’t have any success half the time. However, this morning we all did meditate. The cat was in the bed, and the four of us [people] were in the bed and the kids went for it this morning; and we all meditated for 15 minutes. It was really nice.

[John] Such a special experience.

[Sally] Yes, but I don’t know when that’s going to happen again; but I think that it’s enough that the kids see us doing it. Actions speak louder than words. We’re setting the example and I’m not saying I’m some sort of Zen Master – I might meditate for 15 minutes and then I’ll be yelling at my kids again 15 minutes later. I didn’t say it was sustainable [Sally laughed a lot here]. I think the only time it’s really sustainable is if you live up in the Himalayan Mountains somewhere and you’re secluded and isolated and you don’t have any sort of triggers. That’s not really what it’s about; I just know that I don’t get to that point where I can’t handle my kids fighting (they’ll probably disagree with me on that) and I know I’d be a lot worse if I didn’t do that – if I didn’t meditate and do yoga.

[John] So, having those tools that you’ve learned and having that awareness of your self and what you need to do to maintain your own healthy mental state and emotional state; I’m assuming it has really lent itself in a very positive way to you being able to manage a business on your own and the stress that goes with that. You are much more aware of your own mental health than many people are, or at least are willing to admit to themselves because it’s a tough thing to admit to. You have these really cool tools that you’ve learned and have taught yourself over the years of how to manage your own anxiety, stress and depression. Are you finding that that’s helping you, because it’s got to be very stressful to take on your own business and do it fundamentally by yourself.

[Sally] Yeah, I think that it has. I’ve actually been practicing more; meditating more and doing more yoga, going for walks and just making sure that I do take care of myself because I am very busy now. I know that if I don’t do that then I’m not going to be able to handle all of these new things that I’m learning. I’m learning a lot too, because like said, just social media alone is a full-time job. It’s a lot of work and I’m not tech-savvy at all, so just that alone takes up a lot of time. I’m making the stuff too; I heat-press the shirts myself, I make the hair ties myself, I mail everything – I do all of it on my own. However, I don’t find it work – I actually really like it. It’s a lot of fun. The hardest part for me right now is the writing, the posting – that kind of stuff. I’ve got to get into a routine with that. But again, like I said, my husband is very calming and he reminds me that this is all part of the adventure and things are going to go wrong and that it’s always slow in the beginning, so he brings me back down to earth because I’m often up in my head.

[John] You’ve talked about posts and maintaining the website, and you have a blog on your website. Why is that important to you?

[Sally] [Long, thoughtful sigh] Well, it’s an open book. I really wanted it to be for anybody, to post anything about their own experiences, or information on mental health and self-care. I wasn’t really expecting to do much writing, to be honest with you. At the same time, I have to be open about my own experience if I want people to open up about theirs. So I will be posting stories about my own issues that I’ve had or still do have. I just want to keep it open for anyone that maybe has a story to tell and they just feel like they have to tell it. With my business, I want it to be built around vulnerability and transparency, so I’m very open about my own experiences with it. It’s not always easy to talk about, I’m not going to say it’s easy to talk about, but I hope that we do get to that point where it is easy to talk about.

You know, I’m hoping that some day we’ll just talk about mental health like we do any other health issue. If you were to break your arm, I would say ‘John, what happened to your arm?’ Then you’d say ‘oh I broke it! I was skiing and I fell and it was really painful, and I had to go to Emerg and they gave me these pain pills. Now I’m healing and it might take four to six weeks’ and I’d be like ‘oh my God! That’s crazy!’ and we’d talk about it, and you’d have a story, and I wouldn’t judge you. I wouldn’t think that you are the broken arm and pass judgment on you. I’d think ‘that’s a crazy story’ and we would connect through that because you’re sharing your experience with it. So, I hope that we get to a point where we do the same with ‘what’s wrong with you John?’ and you say ‘oh I’m depressed’, and I’d say ‘why? Tell me about it, what’s going on?’ and you’d tell me; you’d say you’re in pain and you’re seeking help, and you’re doing this for it and that for it. Maybe you took up yoga, you’re going to a therapist, or whatever it is that you need to do and you say, ‘I’m healing but I don’t know how long it’s going to take’, and I’d say ‘okay, let’s go for a coffee’. You know what I mean? I hope we get to that point where it’s just the same as anything else. It’s not even the mental illness that there’s a stigma around [now], it’s the discussion that there’s a stigma around.

[John] Why do think that is?

[Sally] I think because somewhere along the line, we got so identified with the illness that we attached ourselves to this ‘mental’ illness, you know? I mean, the mind is such a mystery and it affects everything, so when you’re having some sort of mental health issue it really affects your whole being. That’s what it feels like, anyway, and I don’t think we know how to separate it like we do everything else. Your liver is damaged – well that’s your liver, it needs some TLC, it needs some medication. But with our heads – with our minds - we don’t do that. It’s like all of me has this and it becomes you, which is really silly! Because, imagine if you did that with anything else, it would just be silly. Then you would judge that person. You would, I guess, judge that person in the same way that there’s been judgment with mental illness. So, I think it’s hard to separate it but I think we have to start looking at it like it’s a separate issue so we can move forward, so we can get the help that we need just like you would with anything else. You would not go home and suffer in pain if you broke your arm. You just wouldn’t do that. You would go seek help, right? Because, you know that it would cause other problems. Why is it, if you’re depressed, you go home and you suffer in silence?

[John] Do you think that it has something to do with the intimacy that’s involved in that? In the sense that it is your mental health, it is your emotional state; it is affecting every other aspect of your life. So it is such a personal thing. Do you think that has an effect? Or is it because people equate it to the way that we loosely use terms like ‘crazy’ or ‘nuts’ (and there are more derogatory terms)?

[Sally] Yeah. I think that it’s definitely a combination of both, for sure. Again, there’s a huge spectrum. We have to remember that and it’s just not all the same. We have to change just that little part of how we talk about it and how we support one another through it. It’s almost like, and I don’t know if this is going to sound insensitive, but it’s almost like ‘don’t make it such a big deal’. Do you know what I mean? If you came to me and said ‘I went to the doctor’s and they told me I have Diabetes’, that would be awful; but we wouldn’t make it such a big deal that now I’m judging you because you have Diabetes. Or I’m thinking maybe, ‘well you shouldn’t have Diabetes’. You know what I mean? It’s like, if somebody’s depressed it’s not like they’re really sad. There’s a big difference. So I think that the way that it’s looked upon is not helpful to the person that’s going through it. So, if somebody says ‘I’m depressed’ you’d be like ‘okay, let’s talk about it’ but leave the big deal part of it at home. Don’t make the person feel like there’s no hope for them, or on the other side of that, make them feel like they should snap out of it.

[John] Diminishing the whole thing.

[Sally] Right, so it’s kind of contradictory I guess, in a way.

[John] I think I understand what you’re saying; that it needs to be a more natural conversation and not so dramatic. Even though it may feel dramatic and the events that surround it could be dramatic, the topic shouldn’t necessarily be dramatic.

[Sally] Right, the topic shouldn’t necessarily be dramatic. Somebody saying that they have depression, I think, should be looked at as somebody saying ‘I have…’ whatever it is… pick your medical issue. If you said you had cancer, that would be horrific but we wouldn’t really be focusing on the cancer. We would be focusing on what we need to do to help you with the cancer. Right? So, the same thing with mental illness;  ‘you have this, okay, so what do we need to do now to help you?’ Let’s not focus so much on the illness part of it.

[John] The diagnosis part of it.

[Sally] Yeah! Again, you’re not the cancer. You have the cancer. You’re not the depression. You have the depression. So let’s move forward and get whatever help you need to get. But, the other thing with mental illness is there aren’t tests that you take for it. You can’t go for a test. The doctor or the therapist pretty much tells you, ‘okay this is what you have’ by your symptoms, by what you’re feeling. But, with anything else, you go for blood work, you go for CT scans, you go for x-rays, so they know exactly what it is. So I think that probably plays a part in it too. I think it’s a combination of a lot of things, but the reality is that people do have it and it’s, unfortunately, on the rise. We can’t ignore it and I can only speak from my personal experience with it; I always say I would take grief over depression any day. That’s how bad it is. I would rather take grief – and grief is pretty bad.

[John] And you know grief well.

[Sally] And I know grief well. I would take grief – that feeling of grief – over depression any day. Grief I can handle. Depression… [not so much]. I handle it better now, but it’s really just a dark, dark place to be in.

[John] So, mentioning that you know grief well, you’ve experienced some significant losses and quite recently at that.

[Sally] Mhm.

[John] Do you think that one of the reasons that you can say you would take grief over depression is because you know where the grief is coming from? You know what’s causing it whereas, with depression, we don’t necessarily know the root cause. It’s just there and you don’t know when you’re going to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Whereas, at least with the grief, you can hope that as the days go by you’ll be able to manage it a little bit better. It never goes away, but you can understand it a little better.

[Sally] Yeah, for sure. I think that, usually, there’s a reason for grief – it’s not a good reason, but depression can sometimes come out of nowhere for a lot of people. That you’re kind of like ‘what’s going on? I was fine and now I have this feeling of gloom that just won’t leave’. Grief can feel similar. It can. A lot of people grieving do get depressed, because it’s heavy. I can see how you would get there. But I, luckily, did not become depressed after my dad and brother passed away [a few months apart]. I did have moments where I felt like I was kind of going down that road but, again, I had my tools. I reached out. I didn’t wait. I emailed all my friends and I said ‘look, I’m having a hard time. I’m feeling like I might be heading down that dark road and I just need you guys to check in on me’. You know, I reached out and that’s what I did when I was depressed the last time.

I had three things that I did: I created my own support group, I started yoga and I meditated like crazy; and those are the three things I do now when I’m feeling like ‘meh, I’m not doing so well’. I reach out right away to my friends because I have an amazing group of friends; I’m very, very blessed. And, I increase my yoga and meditation. I connect inside. That, I think, helped me not to fall back into a depressed state. I didn’t do that in the beginning when I was depressed; I was isolating myself, which I know makes it worse and that’s why I don’t want people to do that because you’re just digging a deeper hole for yourself. If you don’t have a support group, there are support groups – there are people out there, especially now online – there are so many support groups online. Just don’t try to go through it on your own because you’re ashamed or embarrassed or whatever. I just tell it like it is and for me, it helps. I don’t have a problem now saying that I’m not doing well and I need help, I need to go for a walk, or ‘somebody ask me to go for a walk or take me out for coffee, or let’s just meet up or have a phone call’, or whatever. Just debrief. That connection - you need that connection with people.

[John] Which is tough to do, because often when you’re feeling that way you want to retreat.

[Sally] You do want to retreat.

[John] Your natural inclination is to hide away…

[Sally] Yeah.

[John]… and I think it takes a lot of courage and a lot of awareness – a lot of self-awareness – and a lot of strength, to not only recognize that you’re hitting that point but to recognize that you need to reach out. And then, to take the step to actually reach out, which is probably the hardest part of it all. You can tell yourself ‘ yeah okay, I probably really should go out and see some friends or have some human contact, or be forced to talk to people and put myself in some uncomfortable situations’, because they’re not comfortable when you’re feeling that way. But then to actually go ahead and do it… usually we say ‘okay, yeah I need to do that and [instead] I’m just going to crawl into bed’, right? Or, ‘I’m going to go and sit in the corner and cry for a few hours’.

[Sally] Which sometimes you need to do, too; but I think that if you have enough self-awareness, you know when you’re crawling into bed and you’re okay, like ‘yeah I just need to be by myself but I’m okay’. Or when you’re doing that and you’re not okay. So, I know the difference now. I do that. Sometimes I’m like ‘I’m putting myself to bed. I need to be alone’ but it’s good. I just need to retreat in a healthy way, not in an unhealthy way. So I know the difference now.

[John] That’s so important.

[Sally] It is really important. That can be helpful, too. We all need to do that as well, but you need to know what state you’re in. So I know now when I’m getting to that point that I’m feeling so overwhelmed. I haven’t felt like that since my brother and dad passed away but at that time, there were days when I needed to be surrounded by people who cared for me and helped me and encouraged me and let me talk; just let me grieve, just let me sob. I’m lucky I have that. It’s important. It’s not a big group of people; I can count them on one hand, but it’s an important group. So that’s part of self-care; reaching out - that’s taking care of yourself because sometimes you can’t take care of yourself and you need others to do that for you. But if they don’t know, then how are they going to be able to help you? If you don’t have it in your circle of people in your life, you can find it now; there are a lot of groups and online groups, it’s just finding them.

[John] You have to take that first step to start building it.

[Sally] Yeah, exactly.

[John] So what else should people know about Outta? Is there anything that we haven’t covered that you want to share?

[Sally] I think that Outta is my personal story. It’s my personal journey but I feel like it is [that] for many people too. I feel like people who have had mental health issues want to speak up, they want to share their stories or they just want to speak up about how important it is and I don’t feel like it’s just my thing. I really feel that it’s going to become a community and I want it to be a community. I want it to be open. I want it to be for anyone and everyone who understands that message on a deeper level. On our home page, it says “Get Outta Your Head and Into Your Heart” and that just means that it’s so important to connect to that inner self that is always there, and that gets neglected. The only way to get there is to move from your head space, and however you get there is different for everyone. I’m not saying the only way to get there is through meditating or doing yoga or anything active; it’s whatever gets you there and so share that! Share that with others, because then we can bring more awareness and we can help youth and adults and whoever has gone through a difficult time, or is going through a difficult time, and create some sort of change. Really, that’s what it’s all about, I think.

[John] Alright, so where can people find Outta?

[Sally began laughing again here, as she emphasized once more, her lack of tech & social media knowledge… it really is quite endearing when you realize how much she’s taught herself in such a short time.]

Online, at getouttayourhead.com. The company is called Outta, the website is called getouttayourhead.com - that’s our main message, is to get outta your head. So you can go there, you can purchase a tank, purchase hair ties; t-shirts are coming. When you do that, you’ll be supporting mental health initiatives. So, in the future when we do build up enough proceeds - and it’s all going to be documented because I don’t want you to feel like you don’t know where your money is going - so everything that we do will be documented and it is going to be put on our website. So if that month we’ve chosen to go into a school, then there will be pictures. Hopefully there will be some interviews – questions that we will ask students – and it will all be posted there; and you’ll know that if you purchase something that month, that your money went to that initiative or charity or whatever. It’s going to be posted month-by-month because I know for me, when I donate, I want to know – really – where is it going? It creates an interaction between the customer and the company, too. So that will all be on the website as well and I think that will be informative. Again, it’s bringing awareness and kind of showing what our communities are doing and I think it’s a fun way to engage. It’s all about engagement.

Also on the website, like we talked about, there’s a blog and I welcome anyone to submit anything that they want to submit, whether it’s their personal story or some new statistic, or some new program that’s going on, whatever. I want people to have their own voice but in an appropriate manner. If it’s anything that’s more research-type then of course it must be accurate, especially with mental health that’s important. Personal stories though, I mean it’s your own story and if you want to share it that’s what it’s all about. It’s about connecting and we can only connect on that deeper level if we’re truthful and honest and authentic. Sometimes it’s really hard to be that way, it is for me still. You know, before I launched my site I had lots of people telling me ‘oh my God I had no idea that you had to go through that!’ because I didn’t talk about it for a really long time, and I’m still learning to get comfortable talking about it but that comes with time.

[John] You’ve encouraged me too, because I wrote that guest blog article for you and that was probably the hardest thing that I’ve ever had to write.

[Sally] Really?!?

[John] I know I’m going to be writing more for you and I almost have to talk myself into it because I’ve realized that I kind of mention in passing once in a while, that I have anxiety or that I’ve got some mild PTSD and that I experience it. But to have to sit down and actually write about it, and be really open and honest about it, is a scary and difficult thing to do. So I understand that, because it is tough to be authentic. I don’t know that we really can be authentic 100% of the time but just starting is really important.

[Sally] How did you feel after you wrote it?

[John] Awesome. I felt relieved and freer. It started a different journey for me. So thank you for that.

[Sally] Oh you’re welcome! I had no idea!

[John] So you have your website, you have a Facebook page and you’re on Twitter.

[Sally] Oh yes! Our Facebook page! Please come to our Facebook page! I’m going to be totally honest here okay… [Deep sigh] I would boycott social media if I could. I really would. It is not my thing. But because I have an online store, I have to be on the social media platforms. So, please help me and follow us on all these things! [Laughing] Follow us, like us, share us, whatever you’re supposed to do on it; because to gain a following is really hard. I’m new! No one knows who I am and I have no problem asking people. I’ll go up to people I’ve just met and ask if they’re on Instagram and if they can follow me. [Laughing… a lot]

[John] I have three last questions for you.

[Sally] Okay.

[John] These are what Lana calls the tough questions.

[Sally] Oh no. This is already tough! [Laughing]

[John] What inspires you?

[Sally] Oh man. [Sally took a long, thoughtful pause here…] People that are authentic inspire me. You know, I listen to a lot of podcasts and I’m attracted to people who are just raw and real and tell it like it is. That inspires me to be me, in my own way; a you-can-take-it-or-leave-it kind of approach. Those people inspire me. That’s really why I’ve started this, is being inspired by those kind of ‘real deal’ people.

[John] What is your intention in this life?

[Sally] [Another long, thoughtful pause…] Hmmm… It’s to do good. It’s to be a benefit. I’ve always known that I wanted to do something that was meaningful and that kind of penetrates life at a deeper level. I don’t want to live a surface-y, shallow life. It’s to create meaning.

[John] What do you want people to know - to really know - about Sally Goncalves?

[Sally] That I am just as scared as anybody else about starting anything new. That I am just as emotional and as uncertain; I’m full of all those things. Just because I’ve started something doesn’t mean I don’t have that; I do, but I’m not going to let it stop me anymore. In the past I have. In the past I talked myself out of doing things that deep down I knew I really wanted to do. I don’t know why. It’s just a nudge but it’s a nudge that hasn’t left me, so it’s now or never. I’m going to be 40 [soon], so I’m moving forward with kind of a new outlook. I’m going to go for it and whatever happens, happens. At least that way, I won’t regret not doing it. With that being said, I still feel all those feelings of fear. It’s all there. It’s all there, but I just let them hang out and I don’t let them take over anymore. So, that’s kind of my progress from where I’ve been to where I am now. It’s not that that goes away completely. It’s there but I’ve learned to just let it be and not let it bully me anymore.

[John] Well I have to say that you have, over the years, inspired me a lot in ways that I’ve never shared because I just stay quiet.

[Sally] Oh!

[John] We have been friends for about 15 years now and over these years you’ve actually taught me a lot. You’ve taught me a lot about myself and you’ve helped me, you’ve encouraged me, without intending to but just in you leading by example and being who you are as authentically as you are. You have inspired me and encouraged me to be strong in myself and so this has actually been a really cool experience for me, to be able to do this, so thank you for that. You’re awesome.

[Sally] Aw so are you. This was fun!

END PART 2

Well dear friends, that concludes my conversation with Sally Goncalves.

This has been such an enlightening experience for me. I feel like I receive more and more life learning with each interview we do and this one definitely deepened that awareness for me. I hope that you have all gained from this experience as much as I have. Lana insisted he not read the interview in advance and has gone on this ride along with all of you. He wanted to take it in just like everyone else would, so it’s been a new experience for him too. It has been a change from our typical form, however I know its importance and we are passionate about the topic.

Thank you so much, to all of you who have commented and contacted us, expressing gratitude for bringing this topic to the table. We appreciate your words and support very much. We are incredibly fortunate to have this Carbon Lilies world and the friends who come along with it.

Keep the conversation going and don’t be afraid of the discussion… Get Outta Your Head and Into Your Heart. 

If you would like to have a look at Outta or contact Sally, please visit:

getouttayourhead.com

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Get Outta Your Head, with Sally Goncalves - Part 1

MARCH 29th, 2016

By JOHN LILIES

We have recently shared with you, our readers and followers, that Lana and I are huge supporters of mental health initiatives. Throughout our lives, various forms of mental illness have touched us both with friends and family, and we have each experienced our own struggles along the way.

While developing Carbon Lilies, we decided that we want our work to include our support for mental health awareness, research, and initiatives. If you have read a handful of our articles, you know that while we do cover a lot of the paranerdal experience, we have many different topics to share with you. We know that a great many people have dealt with or are currently navigating issues related to mental health and mental illness, either privately or publicly, personally or via friends, family and co-workers.

Carbon Lilies is about our trips through time – museums, haunts, galleries and life. Life stories are important to us; so important that we want to share different life accounts among the various articles we post. Last year, we began interviewing different people so that we could share some of these tales with all of you. Thus far, we have focused mostly on topics related to the paranormal but within those interviews, we have also tried to present the person. We want to bring you more interviews with more people sharing their life experiences: plans, fears, memories, failures, celebrations, and successes.

We have, so far, brought to you interviews with Andrea Bailey of Unearthing Shadows, Patrick Keller of The Big Séance Podcast, Chris Medina of Platinum Predictions, and today we are introducing you to Sally Goncalves of Outta.

Sally has been an incredibly close friend of mine since 2001. We have gone through a lot together and supported each other during some of the darkest times. Sally’s life experience has successfully brought her to realize a huge dream of owning and operating an apparel and accessory line, called Outta. The focus of Outta is to spread the important message “get outta your head and into your heart”.

So with that lengthy introduction complete, get into your comfy clothes, grab yourself a drink, settle into your favourite cozy spot, and join us for part one of our interview with Sally Goncalves.

[John] Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. Even before you started this initiative, I had actually been thinking that I would like to interview you because of everything that you’ve gone through; it builds a beautiful person and so it was important to me already. [Outta] made it even more of an opportunity, because while you’re building this brand new adventure of your own, we get to let people know about you and your stories. I think that you have so many important aspects going on with this.

[Sally] Okay, so no pressure.

[John] No pressure! I’m going to just start at the beginning… Who are you?

[Sally] Okay. Oh. [Sally had a lot of nervous laughter here] I don’t know. I guess I’m still trying to figure it out. [Laughing] Who am I? Um… Oh gosh where do you begin?

[John’s note: Sally laughed a fair bit while she was trying to sort out who she is, on the spot. As she started to tell her story, she quickly calmed, centred herself and settled into a story that told me so much more than I had ever known about her life. It’s amazing what you learn about the people closest to you, when you ask a different question…]

[Sally] I was born in Canada to two Portuguese immigrants and they were very poorly educated. My mom is illiterate; she never went to school. My dad, he went to school in Portugal but he was very limited in his education. So, my mom stayed at home. I have three older brothers and my dad worked a lot to provide for us; and my mom has mental illness. [Deep, thoughtful sigh…] I don’t know really what she has. I know, growing up, she had bouts of depression. I remember her being in bed for what seemed like days – that’s from a child’s perspective. I remember going to visit her in the Psych Ward of the hospital, when I was a kid. I don’t know why she was there but I remember going to visit her in there. She doesn’t get depressed anymore but she talks to herself, she’s very emotional – she can’t control her emotions. She has calmed down, for sure, since I was a kid but growing up in that environment, it affected me. My dad self-medicated – he was an alcoholic.

Looking back, I felt like I was susceptible myself. I was afraid of everything and I was probably depressed too, but I didn’t really know until my late teens, early twenties that something was off. So, I kind of grew up in a really tense, unpredictable, scary home. My brothers, who are much older than me – there are 22 years of difference between me and my oldest brother – thankfully for them, they were kind of my escape. They would save me from a lot of those times when my mom was having some sort of episode. My parents fought on a daily basis – I mean physically fighting. The cops would come to our house and that was kind of a daily thing for me. Looking back, I wonder how I didn’t get taken away from them.

As I became a young adult, I didn’t really handle stress very well. I would become depressed – where I couldn’t function. I would be like my mom, laying in bed hopeless, kind of dreading life. That came and went, until a few years ago. So, I’ve had to find a way to navigate through depression.

I wouldn’t say that I’m a depressed, anxious person – I don’t like to use those terms. I’ve also found that with mental illness, we attach our identity to it too much. People say ‘I am depressed’ and I’d rather we say ‘I have depression’. You don’t really say that with anything else.

[John] Why do you find that different?

[Sally] Because you’re not your depression, you’re not your cancer, you’re not your diabetes, you’re not your broken leg, you’re not your cold. You say you have a cold, or ‘I have cancer’, and I don’t know how it happened with mental illness but people are identified with that issue. I think that’s a big problem. That needs to shift. The perspective on how we even word it and how we describe it, I think it would make a huge difference because it is a mental issue. It affects you physically, it affects you emotionally and it affects you mentally. That [wording] plays on the intensity of it; it’s doesn’t help. It doesn’t help the situation, so whenever I’m having anxiety I say ‘I’m feeling anxious’, you know; it’s a sensation, I’m feeling it, it’s not me. It’s there and eventually it’s going to pass just like when you have a cold. When you have a cold, you don’t know when it’s going to pass; it could be two days, it could be two weeks, you don’t know, but you know eventually it’s going pass. You don’t worry about it. You don’t feel good, you’re not yourself but you know that eventually you’re not going to have that cold anymore. So, I think that we need to start looking at certain mental health issues – I’m not saying all, because there is a big spectrum – but certainly ones that are more situational or stress-related, so we don’t make it worse. I’ve kind of taught myself to look at it that way and I find it really helps me.

[John] That’s such a great perspective.

[Sally] It’s not easy. I’m not saying ‘oh well I do this and it goes away’. It doesn’t go away. It’s still there but I don’t make it worse than it already is.

So yeah, I think that if we just change that – that little, tiny shift of looking at it and labeling it differently – I think that makes a big difference. That’s just from my own personal experience from what I’ve noticed when I was in those dark places. I really identified with it and it’s hard not to because you do feel like you’ve been taken over. It does feel like it’s swallowed you up and you do feel like you’re never going to feel like yourself again, when you’re in it. You do, eventually [feel like yourself again]. I mean it’s different for everybody, it’s a different time for everybody but that’s where the hope comes in.

[John] Do you feel like that [experience growing up] has shaped the decisions you’ve made about your life, in terms of what to do with your life?

[Sally] Absolutely. I feel that the times where I did become really depressed were the times that I was supposed to make a major decision and I didn’t know how, without letting somebody down. I just didn’t have the confidence, I didn’t have the self-esteem; and I didn’t know that at the time but now looking back, I think it’s interesting that when I became depressed it was always with this major decision. I just didn’t have the coping skills to handle the change, because I was really afraid when I was a kid. I was afraid to do anything. So that definitely shaped me because as a young adult, I had these opportunities to do great things like travel and move out with girlfriends, and I didn’t do it because I was afraid. My mom always said things like ‘No, you can’t do that. This is going to happen to you’ or ‘What if this happens to you?’ and it was just so fear-based and I really was affected by that.

The good thing is that I am not like that with my kids. I am completely opposite to that, where I tell them ‘You guys have got to go’ [laughing], ‘You’ve got to go see the world’; and give them the confidence to know that they can, and I know this sounds cheesy, but they can do whatever it is they want to do if they work hard enough. Just try to build that confidence in them so when they get to that point in their lives, they’ll be confident in their decisions; and whatever may come, they’ll be able to handle it - and if they don’t handle it, that’s okay. They’ll know how to handle the not handling it, where they’re not consumed by anxiety or stress or uncertainty.

[John] Are you open with them when you’re experiencing a bout of anxiety or depression, or whatever it is that you’re going through at the time? Are you letting them know what it is that’s going on or do you hide it? Or, is that something that you struggle with?

[Sally] No. With Outta, they know that it’s supporting mental health [initiatives]. I’ve told my kids that mommy, in the past, has had depression and I’ve explained to them what depression is. My daughter, who is 10, knew about it because they’ve talked about it at school. One of the teachers actually opened up about his own experience with it and how he had to go on medication. So she actually knew what it was. When they were really young, that was the last time that I was depressed and in bed, and it was a whole summer when I was really ill. I don’t think they remember that because they were quite young. So I tell them when I’m anxious and we talk about it. I’ve taught them how to talk to their anxiety and be with it. I’m trying to teach them techniques that I feel work for me and I don’t really make it a big deal. I tell them it will go away, that it always goes away. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it will go away if you don’t feed it.

So, yes I’m open with it. I’m a pretty emotional and intense person anyway, so in our household we don’t really hide our emotions; we let them be and we talk about it and move on. I don’t really think it’s helpful for anyone [to not talk about it] and we are trying to bring awareness, so the whole point is to talk about what’s going on. My son is nine and he’s a boy, so he doesn’t really care [right now] but my daughter listens and I think she understands.

[John] And your husband?

[Sally] [My husband] is very solid in his emotions, where he doesn’t take them very seriously. Actually, when I met him I was depressed and he stuck around. I’ll be the first to say that I am not easy to live with at all; I am up and down, up and down and it takes a man like him to be married to me because he’s very grounded. He doesn’t take anything too seriously and he’s very calming to be around and very supportive. He’s great.

[John] You have a background in hair styling; did that lend itself at all to starting this new venture?

[Sally] I think so. When I first started doing hair dressing, I was very passionate about it. I was very young – I started when I was 18. I was very ambitious and I wanted to have my own hair salon at that time. I wanted to own my own ‘thing’. I didn’t want to work for somebody forever. I wanted to open my own salon and I had it all designed in my head and I knew what it was going to look like. That was a decision that I wasn’t confident enough to make. So, I didn’t go that route and I ended up working at a really nice, wonderful salon for about 13 years. Something inside me though, was always telling me there was more; that there was something else I was supposed to do. Then I had kids and decided to focus on being home with my kids. But I always had this entrepreneurial urge, so I think that doing this now has stemmed from that.

It’s funny that when you’re in it, you don’t really see the connections – it’s only when you look back. I’ve been thinking that I remember feeling the way I’m feeling now about my company, when I was young and pumped and I was set on owning my own salon. My passion isn’t in hair styling anymore so I have no desire to open up a salon but I do have a desire to run a business, so I do think that has definitely played a part in it.

[John] So, what is Outta?

[Sally] Outta is, right now, a small apparel and accessory line. Meaning, we only have tank tops and hair ties. We have two items, but that is eventually going to grow. I didn’t want to just start with only a couple of things, but then I never would have started. If I had to have all of these things lined up I would have never got it going. So I decided to just start and see where it goes. We are introducing t-shirts very soon, because people are asking for them. Lots of people want to wear t-shirts.

It’s not really about the apparel though, funny enough. It’s about the message. It’s really about my personal mantra that I have adopted into my life. The message is to ‘get outta your head’. That came to me through an amazing therapist of mine; I call her Doctor V. I remember, the last time that I had depression, my best friend recommended that I go to see her. I sat with her for two hours and I was just sobbing and sobbing because I didn’t want to be depressed. I wanted somebody to tell me I wasn’t depressed, that I was just having a hard time. Even though deep down I knew I was, I wanted somebody to tell me that I wasn’t.

After my rant and my sobbing ended, I looked at her and I said, ‘I’m depressed, aren’t I?’ This desperate question, and she looked at me and said, ‘yes’. She said, ‘you are depressed but that’s because you’re in here [Sally pointed to her head]. You’re in your head. We’re going to get you out of your head and we’re going to get you in here [Sally motioned towards her chest], into your heart.’ That was the last thing she said to me and I went home and I was thinking ‘what? Yes! That’s exactly what it is!’ It was just so simple and that’s exactly what she did. She took me from my head to my heart. Her therapy was not your traditional, cognitive therapy; it was much deeper than that. It was learning to connect to that place inside of me that I had never connected with, because I had been so distracted and I had been living in my head forever – since I was a kid. So I really owe the phrase to her because she said that to me and it’s something that has stuck with me ever since. So I know when I’m getting really anxious or overthinking and just going to that place of thinking I can’t handle things, I tell myself to stop and that I’m in my head – to go take some deep breaths, do yoga, do whatever I need to do to get out of that place. I don’t want to live in there any more.

So I thought that if I feel like this, I’m sure a lot of people feel like this. It’s such a simple but powerful message and so I wanted to tell people about it. I thought a fun way of telling people about it would be on clothing. I know for me, while I was going through therapy I also started doing yoga and I became really serious about a yoga routine and a meditation routine. That played a huge part in my healing and I still do it today. I feel like that’s my medicine. So that’s why with Outta, we promote yoga, meditation, activity and movement – that type of self-care. I know it’s different for everyone but for me, that’s something that I do that I find super helpful and I know when I don’t do it, I see a big difference. So at Outta, we promote self-care and support mental health at the same time because it goes hand-in-hand.

So that’s how Outta came to be. It was just an idea, wondering how I could get this message out and I thought I could put it on something. I thought tank tops were good because you can do activity in them or you can [wear them for something else]; and hair ties because I have the background from being a hairdresser and I just thought it would be something fun. So that’s what we’ve started with and I hope that it will grow and expand. But I’m just starting out, so we’ll see.

[John] You’ve talked about self-care and on your website you call it self-care apparel…

[Sally] Self-care awareness apparel.

[John] How would you define what that is? To me, that was even a new term.

[Sally] So self-care awareness apparel is basically bringing awareness to the importance of self-care; with anybody, whether you have mental health issues or not. It’s important for everyone, but because we’re supporting mental health, the importance of self-care in recovery or healing and maintaining your well-being is really important, especially in our culture. So that’s why we named it self-care awareness apparel (a friend helped me name it – I won’t take all the credit for it). Because the awareness is really important – you need the awareness first, to say ‘hey, there’s something up and I need to do something about it’; and we’re advocating for self-care.

So that’s why we wanted to donate proceeds to mental health initiatives. Anything to do with mental health, we’re open to; programs, initiatives, charities, organizations – all of it. There’s a lot of great stuff going on so I didn’t want to lock into one specific charity; I wanted to be open to [different things]. There are lots of schools bringing [in] mindfulness programs. Students are even starting mental health initiatives, so I would be more than happy to help out if a bunch of students were starting something in a school and they don’t have the funds for it. I’d love to be a part of that. It’s a lot of reaching out and getting the word out and networking; that’s a lot of what I’m doing right now. It’s hard, it’s very hard - a lot of work, a lot of time. I have to remind myself that we just launched last month [February 2016], I’m barely a month old. I can barely send an email and now I’m on all these social media platforms and I’m trying to figure it all out. I need someone to help me, so I have my family helping me. It’s gonna take time, for sure, but I’m positive that something will come out of it.

[John] Things already are coming from it.

[Sally] Yeah, things already are coming out of it. I think if we reach the right people, then it will create some sort of change somewhere.

END PART 1

We hope you’ve enjoyed reading Part One of our interview with Sally. This has been a wonderful experience and we are really looking forward to sharing Part Two very soon, so stay tuned!

If you would like to have a look at Outta or contact Sally, please visit:

getouttayourhead.com

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